Hello everyone. I'm trying to create a white repertoire for the London system. One problem is the deviations from black. What kind of variation would you play if after 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Black now moves Bg4? Thanks for any advice.
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Hi,
as a general rule white should deviate from the standard London setup if black plays Bf5 or Bg4 early: Often white plays quickly for c4 and Qb3 to put pressure on the weak b7 pawn and in case of Bg4 white quickly gets dynamic options because after 1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Bg4 white can play 3. Ne5 with tempo. Black will usually respond with
- either Bh5 white gets a clear advantage with the pawn storm 4. g4 Bg6 5. h4
- or Bf5 after which white plays 4. c4 and black needs to be very careful:
A normal looking move like c6 is already loosing because it runs into 5. cxd5 cxd5 6. e4!
A similar pattern comes up after 4. c4 e6 5. cxd5 exd5 6. e4 with a big advantage for white
This means black has to play strange moves like 4. c4 f6 which will harm his normal development.
Please note that these lines with e4 do not work if black plays Bg4 on move 3 instead move 2. After 1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. Bf4 Bg4 both 4. c4 and 4. Ne5 give white dynamic play but not in usual London style. If you want to avoid such more tactical stuff you can of course also play very solid e.g. 4. Ndb2 or 4. e3 .
But: After Bg4 in move 2 these solid options do not work because you would block your Bc1 and cannot get a London-like game; maybe this is why you asked. The best you can do in the line you asked for is to say to yourself "great, he played an inaccurate move and I will punish him immediatelly and do not need my normal London stuff for this but go directly for the attack". To prepare that you only need to look with the opening explorer at some lines with the quick e4 I mentioned and the tactical patterns which belong to it (mainly pressure on b7 and f7 plus a quick Bb5 check).
as a general rule white should deviate from the standard London setup if black plays Bf5 or Bg4 early: Often white plays quickly for c4 and Qb3 to put pressure on the weak b7 pawn and in case of Bg4 white quickly gets dynamic options because after 1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Bg4 white can play 3. Ne5 with tempo. Black will usually respond with
- either Bh5 white gets a clear advantage with the pawn storm 4. g4 Bg6 5. h4
- or Bf5 after which white plays 4. c4 and black needs to be very careful:
A normal looking move like c6 is already loosing because it runs into 5. cxd5 cxd5 6. e4!
A similar pattern comes up after 4. c4 e6 5. cxd5 exd5 6. e4 with a big advantage for white
This means black has to play strange moves like 4. c4 f6 which will harm his normal development.
Please note that these lines with e4 do not work if black plays Bg4 on move 3 instead move 2. After 1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. Bf4 Bg4 both 4. c4 and 4. Ne5 give white dynamic play but not in usual London style. If you want to avoid such more tactical stuff you can of course also play very solid e.g. 4. Ndb2 or 4. e3 .
But: After Bg4 in move 2 these solid options do not work because you would block your Bc1 and cannot get a London-like game; maybe this is why you asked. The best you can do in the line you asked for is to say to yourself "great, he played an inaccurate move and I will punish him immediatelly and do not need my normal London stuff for this but go directly for the attack". To prepare that you only need to look with the opening explorer at some lines with the quick e4 I mentioned and the tactical patterns which belong to it (mainly pressure on b7 and f7 plus a quick Bb5 check).
You shouldn't play the London system if Black plays an instant 2 Bf5, (Yes I'm aware that the move in question was 2...Bg4, but I think mentioning 2 Bf5 is very important, as this can transpose into a non-ideal line of the slav defense also) not developing a knight or starting to clarify his intentions in the center (...c6, ...e6, ...Nf6 etc), as 2 Bf5 has drawbacks that can be exploited, although not immediately.
3 c4 is the best response, followed by 4 Nc3, then if Black plays 4 ...Nf6, 5 Nh4 gets the bishop pair without any of the normal drawbacks from moving a piece twice in the opening (lack of pressure in the center, development issues, etc).
If White insists on 3 Bf4, then after 3...e6, Black gets everything he wants from his move order.e.g. if 4 e3, then 4 Bd6 and Black is almost completely equal, and 4 c3 Bd6 is even worse than 4 e3, so white has to try 4 c4 to hope to get anything whatsoever, and then 4...dxc4 is a very nice Queen's Gambit type position, where Black gets fewer problems than in the main lines.
This is why people need flexible opening systems and can't just spend their entire life spamming the London or Larsen (1 b3) openings and expect their chess to improve. Learning classic d4 openings will do more for your chess than any of these lines ever will.
The best move is 3 c4, and Black can instantly go very wrong with 3...c6? (...e6 is best, but Black has to worry about White playing Nh4 as soon as he blocks control of the h4 square with Nf6), then 4 cxd5! cxd5 (Qxd5? 5 Nc3, followed by e4 is crushing, and 5 ...Qa5 doesn't help Black because of 6 Bd2). 5 Qb3! (attacking b7) Nc6! (sacrificing the b-pawn), and then 6 e4! As we know in chess, the threat to do something is often stronger than the execution. 6 Qxb7 Bd7 (forced) is playable, but this causes White to fall behind in development so Black gets some compensation for the b7 pawn. But 6 e4 (a counter sacrifice by White, attacking f5 and forcing a response) dxe4 7 Ne5 (threatening mate), then 7...Be6 fails to the REAL threat, 8 Qxb7, where White is threatening 9 Bb5+ winning (now do you see why Qxb7 was delayed?), so Black has to play 7... Nxe5 8 dxe5, and now Black has no reasonable developing move except 8 ...g6, as 8...a6 (guarding the b5 square) simply allows White to turbocharge his development with 9 Nc3! (Qxb7 is now really threatened) Rb8 10 Be3!, and 10...e6 cannot be played because of 11 Bb6! Qd7 12 Nb5! or 11...Qe7 12 Bb5+! axb5 13 Nxb5, and Black is helpless against the threats of Nc7+ and Rd1, etc, and massive material losses are coming.
3 c4 is the best response, followed by 4 Nc3, then if Black plays 4 ...Nf6, 5 Nh4 gets the bishop pair without any of the normal drawbacks from moving a piece twice in the opening (lack of pressure in the center, development issues, etc).
If White insists on 3 Bf4, then after 3...e6, Black gets everything he wants from his move order.e.g. if 4 e3, then 4 Bd6 and Black is almost completely equal, and 4 c3 Bd6 is even worse than 4 e3, so white has to try 4 c4 to hope to get anything whatsoever, and then 4...dxc4 is a very nice Queen's Gambit type position, where Black gets fewer problems than in the main lines.
This is why people need flexible opening systems and can't just spend their entire life spamming the London or Larsen (1 b3) openings and expect their chess to improve. Learning classic d4 openings will do more for your chess than any of these lines ever will.
The best move is 3 c4, and Black can instantly go very wrong with 3...c6? (...e6 is best, but Black has to worry about White playing Nh4 as soon as he blocks control of the h4 square with Nf6), then 4 cxd5! cxd5 (Qxd5? 5 Nc3, followed by e4 is crushing, and 5 ...Qa5 doesn't help Black because of 6 Bd2). 5 Qb3! (attacking b7) Nc6! (sacrificing the b-pawn), and then 6 e4! As we know in chess, the threat to do something is often stronger than the execution. 6 Qxb7 Bd7 (forced) is playable, but this causes White to fall behind in development so Black gets some compensation for the b7 pawn. But 6 e4 (a counter sacrifice by White, attacking f5 and forcing a response) dxe4 7 Ne5 (threatening mate), then 7...Be6 fails to the REAL threat, 8 Qxb7, where White is threatening 9 Bb5+ winning (now do you see why Qxb7 was delayed?), so Black has to play 7... Nxe5 8 dxe5, and now Black has no reasonable developing move except 8 ...g6, as 8...a6 (guarding the b5 square) simply allows White to turbocharge his development with 9 Nc3! (Qxb7 is now really threatened) Rb8 10 Be3!, and 10...e6 cannot be played because of 11 Bb6! Qd7 12 Nb5! or 11...Qe7 12 Bb5+! axb5 13 Nxb5, and Black is helpless against the threats of Nc7+ and Rd1, etc, and massive material losses are coming.
@CaptainHugbard said in #1:
> Hello everyone. I'm trying to create a white repertoire for the London system. One problem is the deviations from black. What kind of variation would you play if after 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Black now moves Bg4? Thanks for any advice.
e3, and leave the London system to continue in a Queen Pawn game or bf4 and no worries if your oponent take the knight
> Hello everyone. I'm trying to create a white repertoire for the London system. One problem is the deviations from black. What kind of variation would you play if after 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Black now moves Bg4? Thanks for any advice.
e3, and leave the London system to continue in a Queen Pawn game or bf4 and no worries if your oponent take the knight
@Falkentyne said in #4:
> You shouldn't play the London system if Black plays an instant 2 Bf5, not developing a knight or starting to clarify his intentions in the center (...c6, ...e6, ...Nf6 etc), as 2 Bf5 has drawbacks that can be exploited, although not immediately.
> 3 c4 is the best response, followed by 4 Nc3, then if Black plays 4 ...Nf6, 5 Nh4 gets the bishop pair without any of the normal drawbacks from moving a piece twice in the opening (lack of pressure in the center, development issues, etc).
> If White insists on 3 Bf4, then after 3...e6, Black gets everything he wants from his move order.e.g. if 4 e3, then 4 Bd6 and Black is almost completely equal, and 4 c3 Bd6 is even worse than 4 e3, so white has to try 4 c4 to hope to get anything whatsoever, and then 4...dxc4 is a very nice Queen's Gambit type position, where Black gets fewer problems than in the main lines.
>
> This is why people need flexible opening systems and can't just spend their entire life spamming the London or Larsen (1 b3) openings and expect their chess to improve. Learning classic d4 openings will do more for your chess than any of these lines ever will.
>
> The best move is 3 c4, and Black can instantly go very wrong with 3...c6? (...e6 is best, but Black has to worry about White playing Nh4 as soon as he blocks control of the h4 square with Nf6), then 4 cxd5! cxd5 (Qxd5? 5 Nc3, followed by e4 is crushing, and 5 ...Qa5 doesn't help Black because of 6 Bd2). 5 Qb3! (attacking b7) Nc6! (sacrificing the b-pawn), and then 6 e4! As we know in chess, the threat to do something is often stronger than the execution. 6 Qxb7 Bd7 (forced) is playable, but this causes White to fall behind in development so Black gets some compensation for the b7 pawn. But 6 e4 (a counter sacrifice by White, attacking f5 and forcing a response) dxe4 7 Ne5 (threatening mate), then 7...Be6 fails to the REAL threat, 8 Qxb7, where White is threatening 9 Bb5+ winning (now do you see why Qxb7 was delayed?), so Black has to play 7... Nxe5 8 dxe5, and now Black has no reasonable developing move except 8 ...g6, as 8...a6 (guarding the b5 square) simply allows White to turbocharge his development with 9 Nc3! (Qxb7 is now really threatened) Rb8 10 Be3!, and 10...e6 cannot be played because of 11 Bb6! Qd7 12 Nb5! or 11...Qe7 12 Bb5+! axb5 13 Nxb5, and Black is helpless against the threats of Nc7+ and Rd1, etc, and massive material losses are coming.
W
> You shouldn't play the London system if Black plays an instant 2 Bf5, not developing a knight or starting to clarify his intentions in the center (...c6, ...e6, ...Nf6 etc), as 2 Bf5 has drawbacks that can be exploited, although not immediately.
> 3 c4 is the best response, followed by 4 Nc3, then if Black plays 4 ...Nf6, 5 Nh4 gets the bishop pair without any of the normal drawbacks from moving a piece twice in the opening (lack of pressure in the center, development issues, etc).
> If White insists on 3 Bf4, then after 3...e6, Black gets everything he wants from his move order.e.g. if 4 e3, then 4 Bd6 and Black is almost completely equal, and 4 c3 Bd6 is even worse than 4 e3, so white has to try 4 c4 to hope to get anything whatsoever, and then 4...dxc4 is a very nice Queen's Gambit type position, where Black gets fewer problems than in the main lines.
>
> This is why people need flexible opening systems and can't just spend their entire life spamming the London or Larsen (1 b3) openings and expect their chess to improve. Learning classic d4 openings will do more for your chess than any of these lines ever will.
>
> The best move is 3 c4, and Black can instantly go very wrong with 3...c6? (...e6 is best, but Black has to worry about White playing Nh4 as soon as he blocks control of the h4 square with Nf6), then 4 cxd5! cxd5 (Qxd5? 5 Nc3, followed by e4 is crushing, and 5 ...Qa5 doesn't help Black because of 6 Bd2). 5 Qb3! (attacking b7) Nc6! (sacrificing the b-pawn), and then 6 e4! As we know in chess, the threat to do something is often stronger than the execution. 6 Qxb7 Bd7 (forced) is playable, but this causes White to fall behind in development so Black gets some compensation for the b7 pawn. But 6 e4 (a counter sacrifice by White, attacking f5 and forcing a response) dxe4 7 Ne5 (threatening mate), then 7...Be6 fails to the REAL threat, 8 Qxb7, where White is threatening 9 Bb5+ winning (now do you see why Qxb7 was delayed?), so Black has to play 7... Nxe5 8 dxe5, and now Black has no reasonable developing move except 8 ...g6, as 8...a6 (guarding the b5 square) simply allows White to turbocharge his development with 9 Nc3! (Qxb7 is now really threatened) Rb8 10 Be3!, and 10...e6 cannot be played because of 11 Bb6! Qd7 12 Nb5! or 11...Qe7 12 Bb5+! axb5 13 Nxb5, and Black is helpless against the threats of Nc7+ and Rd1, etc, and massive material losses are coming.
W
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