do you support ukraine or russia in this war

@FiveofSwords said in #18:
> well you get that impression because that is what our media wants us to think. Meanwhile i am sure that actual russians feel something quite different about it.
>
> But tbh i think western media is totally shameless about lying. Has been for a long time. Our media lies about absolutely everything, not simply foreign countries.
>
> So when our media tries to tell me some story about how Putin eats his steak well done, I just ignore it.
>
> I dont know what the 'truth' actually IS...but i know our media isnt giving it.

In the free world most of our media is social media which is from we the people. First hand accounts. So unfortunately its not what our media wants us to believe. Its what it is. "our" commercial media isn't even allowed to visit and interview the other side. It is Putin wants you to believe otherwise.

@AyUsHmAn_MaHaTa said in #20:
> @Mad_over_Chess
> You are absolutely correct, i has been a long time and I want peace on earth. Every country should TRY to avoid destruction, most of the ukraine is deserted now

A little under 3 million fled from a country of 37 million my friend. Civilians are getting raped and murdered. Many of the cities have mostly been vacated because that is what Putin soldiers are focused on destroying. But people are still there as well. And they are dying.

@CooloutAC said in #21:
> In the free world most of our media is social media which is from we the people. First hand accounts. So unfortunately its what our media wants us to believe. Its what it is. "our" commercial media isn't even allowed to visit and interview the other side. Putin wants you to believe otherwise.

i think social media is very deeply controlled

@FiveofSwords said in #18:
> well you get that impression because that is what our media wants us to think. Meanwhile i am sure that actual russians feel something quite different about it.
>
> But tbh i think western media is totally shameless about lying. Has been for a long time. Our media lies about absolutely everything, not simply foreign countries.
>
> So when our media tries to tell me some story about how Putin eats his steak well done, I just ignore it.
>
> I dont know what the 'truth' actually IS...but i know our media isnt giving it.

Undoubtedly news agencies are biased to a certain degree. But when about everyone who saw Bucha reported a complete massacre, then we can assume it is the truth. And the Russian spin on it, that Ukrainians killed and raped themselves, is completely ridiculous.

It's like someone punched you in your face then claims you punched yourself. With plenty of video evidence. Not very credible.

Of course we don't know 100% of the truth, but imo that's not a reason not to help Ukrainia.

@CooloutAC I can understand . Thats how most of the earlier civilisation got abandonned. The two countrys should make a fine deal and stop this. none of have the power to stop this war except Putin, he has started it and he have to end it.

@flash_ahaaa said in #24:
> Undoubtedly news agencies are biased to a certain degree. But when about everyone who saw Bucha reported a complete massacre, then we can assume it is the truth. And the Russian spin on it, that Ukrainians killed and raped themselves, is completely ridiculous.
>
> It's like someone punched you in your face then claims you punched yourself. With plenty of video evidence. Not very credible.
>
> Of course we don't know 100% of the truth, but imo that's not a reason not to help Ukrainia.

I dont see the russian claim as ridiculous.

Ukranians have indeed been killing each other for years now...it has been a civil war...between russian separatists and ukranian nationals.

naturally part of the reason for the russian invasion was to protect the separatists who formed the 'Novorossiya confederacy'...this isnt controversial this is accepted fact by both sides. And militia like Azov have been killing such seperatists since 2014...also granted by both sides.

so no...i dont see anything intrinsically ridiculous about the claim of russia.

@AyUsHmAn_MaHaTa said in #26:
> @CooloutAC I can understand . Thats how most of the earlier civilisation got abandonned. The two countrys should make a fine deal and stop this. none of have the power to stop this war except Putin, he has started it and he have to end it.

what do you mean that is how earlier civilizations got abandoned? I have no idea what you are talking about. can you explain? most earlier civilizations I know were abandoned due to the natural environment conditions. I don't think you understand that Putin will not accept any deal. He wants to destroy the Ukrainian people for defying him by trying to join the EU, period. Its not about anything else and claims otherwise are lies. I personally think the guy is dying of cancer and has become resentful. he thinks he will die of a disease or become assassinated and wants to leave this world in fireworks. He is a sociopath that has shown no care for human life all throught his career. Zelenskyy has made every concession he can besides totally giving up his country's right to exist.

@FiveofSwords said in #27:
> I dont see the russian claim as ridiculous.
>
> Ukranians have indeed been killing each other for years now...it has been a civil war...between russian separatists and ukranian nationals.
>
> naturally part of the reason for the russian invasion was to protect the separatists who formed the 'Novorossiya confederacy'...this isnt controversial this is accepted fact by both sides. And militia like Azov have been killing such seperatists since 2014...also granted by both sides.
>
> so no...i dont see anything intrinsically ridiculous about the claim of russia.

There has been no civil war. There has been Putin invading Crimea starting the war. and its continued ever since. With Separatists being backed with Russian soldiers and weapons.

@CooloutAC said in #29:
> There has been no civil war. There has been Putin invading Crimea starting the war. and its continued ever since. With Separatists being backed with Russian soldiers and weapons.

I dont understand...there is no civil war but there are separatists?