I bet that I can give you massive cognitive dissonance, about Lichess and war.

If you are like most people you support economic sanctions against Russia.
But if you are like most people you don't support banning all Russian players from using lichess, because that would be taking it out on many innocent people who have nothing to do with the decisions being made.
But economic sanctions also do this, even to a much worse extent because crippling a whole economy hurts everyone from babies to 100 year olds in more profound ways.
So how can you support economic sanctions but not banning all Russian players from lichess?

Note, If you don't agree with both these positions then this question does not apply to you.

@Buttercup22 said in #1:
> that would be taking it out on many innocent people

Those "innocent people" praised Putin for 22 years. They supported wars in Chechya, in Georgia, in Ukraine. They making stickers on their cars "On Berlin" and "Can repeat" (reference to WWII, if anyone don`t know).

So - no dissonances. There are no "innocent Russians" in Putin's Russia. How there were no "innocent Germans" in Hitler's Germany. They are SHOULD to feel their guilty. Everyone. Personally.

#2 that's a bit of a over-generalization.

There is a (very) small fraction of people opposing the wars, now in Russia and back then in Germany.

I personally still support the sanctions, hitting the - let's say 90% - people who either support the war or are neutral, and thus are also implicit in some form.

I also understand #1's point and am a bit torn about it. Sanctioning Russian lichess players would be in line to shut out Russians from our global community - but then I don't know if cutting each other off from communication is desirable or not.

Simple: because sanctions are more likely to have a meaningful effect.

@flash_ahaaa said in #3:
> #2 that's a bit of a over-generalization.
>
> There is a (very) small fraction of people opposing the wars, now in Russia and back then in Germany.
Well, I agree with that. Very small fraction exist. Just today I post story about Russian woman, photographer, who via Stambul and Budapesht came to Kyiv to help Ukrainian cause.

There are only a VERY few of them
The average "innocent Russian" is not worried that Russian aircraft are dropping bombs on a building with "CHILDREN" written on it. And not even because the bodies of Russian soldiers on the outskirts of Kharkiv lie untidy (according to the latest BBC reports). The average "innocent Russian" continues to glorify Putin and paint a Z-swastika on his car. He is concerned only with rising prices, the lack of opportunity to eat at McDonald's.

The guy I used to sit at the same desk in school with doesn't get in touch on the third day. He is in Chernihiv. Maybe it's just a connection failure, surely. But, please, don`t tell me about "innocent Russians".

@MaugliUA
Sorry in my superficiality I didn't realize you are Ukrainian. I wish you all the best that the suffering you and your family and actually the whole of Ukraine endure will end soon.

I agree that the whole "the casual Russian is innocent" is nonsense.

What is your stance here on lichess, would you like to see Russians get banned from here? Maybe ban them unless they clearly state that they are anti-war?

@flash_ahaaa said in #6:
> @MaugliUA
>
> What is your stance here on lichess, would you like to see Russians get banned from here? Maybe ban them unless they clearly state that they are anti-war?

What you said, is exactly my opinion. Anyone, who don`t make clear stand against war, should be banned.
I know, administration of Lichess already decided otherwise (shrug).

Column from etnical Russian. Russian-speaking Ukrainian writer. The same man for whose protection Putin sent tanks and bombers to Ukraine.

www.pravda.com.ua/columns/2022/03/18/7332442/
===
Jan Valetov
writer, blogger
Russians, run away!
Friday, March 18, 2022, 11:25

"Russia's armed forces are not bombing Ukrainian cities, and no matter how many videos are mounted in NATO structures, no matter how many video clips and photo fakes are thrown in now, the truth will still break through." Maria Zakharova. 03/17/22

This is, so to speak, an epigraph. Preamble.

You see, there are people and there are countries for which the concepts of honor, humanity, morality, shame are just empty words. For them, manifestations of lies, cynicism, cruelty and insidiousness are the only possible principles of interaction with the outside world.

They cannot exist, to tell the truth, because in this case no one will simply lend a hand - they will disdain.

They cannot behave humanely and morally because they consider it a dangerous weakness.

They do not know how to be ashamed and sympathetic, because they have neither sympathy nor shame. They have no organ to sympathize with. And there is no understanding that they should be ashamed of what they have done.

They just live - eat, multiply, have fun, eat and multiply again, and along the way bring death and destruction to those who came to their aid.

They live as they can and do not understand how to live differently.

They are confident that strength, money and resources will replace their conscience, honor and soul.

They can look good, dress fashionably, know languages, participate in charity balls, and if you do not know what they really are, you can take them as sane, bargaining partners. But this is a dangerous illusion. A cannibal in a tailcoat is just a dressed cannibal.

Today's Russia is a cannibal from whom the tailcoat was torn off.

It was the Ukrainians who, at the cost of their own lives, showed the world the face of a cannibal with whom world leaders did not consider it shameful to sit at the same table. They made deals with a war criminal, they built joint economic models with him, they paid him money for the necessary resources, turning a blind eye to the fact that the cannibal killed, robbed, raped all the years of his rule, but a little...

There he annexed a little, here he bombed a little, here he poisoned, shot, blew up... It was profitable. It was calm. Everyone was happy. Well, except for those who were annexed, who were bombed and who were poisoned. Nothing personal, right? Oil, gas, nickel... Just business.

And suddenly, when it thundered and caught fire at the very European borders, everyone suddenly saw that the king was naked. Completely naked, bald, botex and smeared with someone else's blood.

Everyone was surprised to learn that he was a liar, a scoundrel and a murderer. That you can't deal with him. That even on one hectare to be with such a leader is already dangerous for reputation.

That this is not Vladimir Vladimirovich - the undisputed president of all of Russia, a respected world leader and authority, but a simple hu * lo, on which there is no place to try.

And the great country ruled by this hu * lo is not the country of cute elves who, as the song says, do not want war, but the country of orcs and trolls, obedient and faithful servants of the reigning cannibal. Servants living in war, welcoming war, calling for war.

Today's Russia is the reincarnation of Nazi Germany in the 1930s, a prototype of the same Mordor from Professor Tolkien's novels. And the fate of Nazi Germany awaits her - universal hatred, contempt, defeat and denazification. Just in Russia, denazification will be called deputinization, which does not change the essence of the process.

I know that not everyone in Russia supports Putin's attack on Ukraine, not everyone applauds this war, not all Russians are completely fooled and naturally bloodthirsty.

But not all Germans supported Hitler, did they? That does not abolish the collective responsibility for the entire people of Germany for the crimes of the Nazis.

When a Russian plane drops bombs on Kyiv, it is not only Putin who is to blame, but also the pilot who presses on the drop lever, and the technician who hung the bomb under the attacker's belly, and the worker who collected the bomb, and the gunsmith who developed it, and even the gunsmith's wife. his his soup in the evenings.

Everyone who has voted for Putin for all 22 years is to blame for this war.

All those who silently bowed their heads and did not protest against Grozny, the war in Abkhazia, Georgia, the annexation of Crimea and the occupation of Donbass. Against everything that the blood-smelling regime did.

All those who allowed the gray KGB moth to turn Russia into a dictatorship of thieves and mediocrity.

Everyone who whispered in the kitchens and was afraid to go out in the square.

Everyone who did not go to the polls, "because it is useless."

And, of course, all the victims of the Ostankino Tower, who are now drawing on everything that got meaningless Z and V.

Are you a Russian citizen? So you are guilty of this war. Each of you is guilty. And those who did nothing, and those who did not do enough. The blood of Ukrainian women and children is on your hands.

Everyone who paid taxes to this regime.

Everyone who watched Soloviev and Skabeeva's show over a beer.

Everyone who believed and still believes in Putin's false propaganda.

Russian propaganda not only denies what the whole world sees - it creates a new reality for its citizens.

A reality in which the Russian attack aircraft is a dove of peace, bringing peace and tranquility to Kharkiv.

A reality in which the vacuum bomb is a high-precision weapon.

The reality in which the maternity hospital is the Azov command post.

And Mariupol is a nest of Nazis with headquarters in the Russian Drama Theater.

George Orwell with his "1984" can quietly smoke aside.

Russia is not only the homeland of elephants, it is also the mother of the absurd. Not saying a word of truth - never, for any reason. A huge country living lies, breathing lies and hatred for everyone around.

Rich to the point of madness, and just as stupid and unscrupulous.

What is happening to Russia now is the beginning of falling into the economic and spiritual abyss. And the fall will be deep, painful and perennial. And, in my opinion, corresponding to the evil committed by Russia. She will finally get what she deserves. Work off your black karma.

And so my advice to decent people left in Russia: run! Run while there is an opportunity! Burn Russian passports, transfer to another citizenship, start a new life anywhere, but not behind the Iron Curtain.

Take away the children so that no one can throw them to their deaths in a foreign land and turn them into criminals.

Educate them in civilized countries so that their diplomas are recognized in any institution of the world.

Neither they nor you will have a future in Russia.

He was shot in Kharkiv, Sumy, Okhtyrka, Izyum and Mariupol. Burned in Bucha, Gostomel and Makarov. Occupied in Kherson, Berdyansk and Genichesk. It was destroyed by Putin and his soldiers. Exchanged for the insane nonsense of the Kremlin bunker sitter.

And there is nothing to do with it. Understand, everything could have been fixed, but you were twenty-two years late.

The current year 2022 is the year when the world order, born in the blood and dirt of the Second World War, died.

The year when the European security system, which seemed reliable and strong, ceased to exist.

The year when a cannibal in the center of Europe, without any reason, for a contrived reason grabbed a neighbor's throat and tried to bite him.

Damn year.

But this year may be the time of the birth of a new security system that will distinguish cannibals more reliably than the "own-alien" system. Distinguish and immediately beat without a miss and sentiments.

A year when everyone understands that doing business with bloody dictators is fraught with condemnation, sanctions and the collapse of this business.

And in order not to turn into nuclear ashes at the hands of a madman, it is not necessary to encourage this madman.

This requires very little: for European countries to finally recognize the obvious - you can not sell freedom for oil and gas, no matter how sweet the price may seem!

For America to stop being afraid to be the leader and guardian of democracy.

And for Ukraine to simply resist.

She did not fall, she did not give up, she did not retreat - she continued to fight for her future.

Today, it is in Ukraine, in this very war, that the world order is being decided in the next 50 years.

Glory to Ukraine!

May God and the Ukrainian Armed Forces keep it!

Jan Valetov
===

@Buttercup22 said in #1:
> If you are like most people you support economic sanctions against Russia.
> But if you are like most people you don't support banning all Russian players from using lichess, because that would be taking it out on many innocent people who have nothing to do with the decisions being made.
> But economic sanctions also do this, even to a much worse extent because crippling a whole economy hurts everyone from babies to 100 year olds in more profound ways.
> So how can you support economic sanctions but not banning all Russian players from lichess?
>
> Note, If you don't agree with both these positions then this question does not apply to you.

You make a good point. Its hypocritical.

@MaugliUA said in #8:
> Column from etnical Russian. Russian-speaking Ukrainian writer. The same man for whose protection Putin sent tanks and bombers to Ukraine.
>
> www.pravda.com.ua/columns/2022/03/18/7332442/
> ===
> Jan Valetov
> writer, blogger
> Russians, run away!
> Friday, March 18, 2022, 11:25
>
> "Russia's armed forces are not bombing Ukrainian cities, and no matter how many videos are mounted in NATO structures, no matter how many video clips and photo fakes are thrown in now, the truth will still break through." Maria Zakharova. 03/17/22
>
> This is, so to speak, an epigraph. Preamble.
>
> You see, there are people and there are countries for which the concepts of honor, humanity, morality, shame are just empty words. For them, manifestations of lies, cynicism, cruelty and insidiousness are the only possible principles of interaction with the outside world.
>
> They cannot exist, to tell the truth, because in this case no one will simply lend a hand - they will disdain.
>
> They cannot behave humanely and morally because they consider it a dangerous weakness.
>
> They do not know how to be ashamed and sympathetic, because they have neither sympathy nor shame. They have no organ to sympathize with. And there is no understanding that they should be ashamed of what they have done.
>
> They just live - eat, multiply, have fun, eat and multiply again, and along the way bring death and destruction to those who came to their aid.
>
> They live as they can and do not understand how to live differently.
>
> They are confident that strength, money and resources will replace their conscience, honor and soul.
>
> They can look good, dress fashionably, know languages, participate in charity balls, and if you do not know what they really are, you can take them as sane, bargaining partners. But this is a dangerous illusion. A cannibal in a tailcoat is just a dressed cannibal.
>
> Today's Russia is a cannibal from whom the tailcoat was torn off.
>
> It was the Ukrainians who, at the cost of their own lives, showed the world the face of a cannibal with whom world leaders did not consider it shameful to sit at the same table. They made deals with a war criminal, they built joint economic models with him, they paid him money for the necessary resources, turning a blind eye to the fact that the cannibal killed, robbed, raped all the years of his rule, but a little...
>
> There he annexed a little, here he bombed a little, here he poisoned, shot, blew up... It was profitable. It was calm. Everyone was happy. Well, except for those who were annexed, who were bombed and who were poisoned. Nothing personal, right? Oil, gas, nickel... Just business.
>
> And suddenly, when it thundered and caught fire at the very European borders, everyone suddenly saw that the king was naked. Completely naked, bald, botex and smeared with someone else's blood.
>
> Everyone was surprised to learn that he was a liar, a scoundrel and a murderer. That you can't deal with him. That even on one hectare to be with such a leader is already dangerous for reputation.
>
> That this is not Vladimir Vladimirovich - the undisputed president of all of Russia, a respected world leader and authority, but a simple hu * lo, on which there is no place to try.
>
> And the great country ruled by this hu * lo is not the country of cute elves who, as the song says, do not want war, but the country of orcs and trolls, obedient and faithful servants of the reigning cannibal. Servants living in war, welcoming war, calling for war.
>
> Today's Russia is the reincarnation of Nazi Germany in the 1930s, a prototype of the same Mordor from Professor Tolkien's novels. And the fate of Nazi Germany awaits her - universal hatred, contempt, defeat and denazification. Just in Russia, denazification will be called deputinization, which does not change the essence of the process.
>
> I know that not everyone in Russia supports Putin's attack on Ukraine, not everyone applauds this war, not all Russians are completely fooled and naturally bloodthirsty.
>
> But not all Germans supported Hitler, did they? That does not abolish the collective responsibility for the entire people of Germany for the crimes of the Nazis.
>
> When a Russian plane drops bombs on Kyiv, it is not only Putin who is to blame, but also the pilot who presses on the drop lever, and the technician who hung the bomb under the attacker's belly, and the worker who collected the bomb, and the gunsmith who developed it, and even the gunsmith's wife. his his soup in the evenings.
>
> Everyone who has voted for Putin for all 22 years is to blame for this war.
>
> All those who silently bowed their heads and did not protest against Grozny, the war in Abkhazia, Georgia, the annexation of Crimea and the occupation of Donbass. Against everything that the blood-smelling regime did.
>
> All those who allowed the gray KGB moth to turn Russia into a dictatorship of thieves and mediocrity.
>
> Everyone who whispered in the kitchens and was afraid to go out in the square.
>
> Everyone who did not go to the polls, "because it is useless."
>
> And, of course, all the victims of the Ostankino Tower, who are now drawing on everything that got meaningless Z and V.
>
> Are you a Russian citizen? So you are guilty of this war. Each of you is guilty. And those who did nothing, and those who did not do enough. The blood of Ukrainian women and children is on your hands.
>
> Everyone who paid taxes to this regime.
>
> Everyone who watched Soloviev and Skabeeva's show over a beer.
>
> Everyone who believed and still believes in Putin's false propaganda.
>
> Russian propaganda not only denies what the whole world sees - it creates a new reality for its citizens.
>
> A reality in which the Russian attack aircraft is a dove of peace, bringing peace and tranquility to Kharkiv.
>
> A reality in which the vacuum bomb is a high-precision weapon.
>
> The reality in which the maternity hospital is the Azov command post.
>
> And Mariupol is a nest of Nazis with headquarters in the Russian Drama Theater.
>
> George Orwell with his "1984" can quietly smoke aside.
>
> Russia is not only the homeland of elephants, it is also the mother of the absurd. Not saying a word of truth - never, for any reason. A huge country living lies, breathing lies and hatred for everyone around.
>
> Rich to the point of madness, and just as stupid and unscrupulous.
>
> What is happening to Russia now is the beginning of falling into the economic and spiritual abyss. And the fall will be deep, painful and perennial. And, in my opinion, corresponding to the evil committed by Russia. She will finally get what she deserves. Work off your black karma.
>
> And so my advice to decent people left in Russia: run! Run while there is an opportunity! Burn Russian passports, transfer to another citizenship, start a new life anywhere, but not behind the Iron Curtain.
>
> Take away the children so that no one can throw them to their deaths in a foreign land and turn them into criminals.
>
> Educate them in civilized countries so that their diplomas are recognized in any institution of the world.
>
> Neither they nor you will have a future in Russia.
>
> He was shot in Kharkiv, Sumy, Okhtyrka, Izyum and Mariupol. Burned in Bucha, Gostomel and Makarov. Occupied in Kherson, Berdyansk and Genichesk. It was destroyed by Putin and his soldiers. Exchanged for the insane nonsense of the Kremlin bunker sitter.
>
> And there is nothing to do with it. Understand, everything could have been fixed, but you were twenty-two years late.
>
> The current year 2022 is the year when the world order, born in the blood and dirt of the Second World War, died.
>
> The year when the European security system, which seemed reliable and strong, ceased to exist.
>
> The year when a cannibal in the center of Europe, without any reason, for a contrived reason grabbed a neighbor's throat and tried to bite him.
>
> Damn year.
>
> But this year may be the time of the birth of a new security system that will distinguish cannibals more reliably than the "own-alien" system. Distinguish and immediately beat without a miss and sentiments.
>
> A year when everyone understands that doing business with bloody dictators is fraught with condemnation, sanctions and the collapse of this business.
>
> And in order not to turn into nuclear ashes at the hands of a madman, it is not necessary to encourage this madman.
>
> This requires very little: for European countries to finally recognize the obvious - you can not sell freedom for oil and gas, no matter how sweet the price may seem!
>
> For America to stop being afraid to be the leader and guardian of democracy.
>
> And for Ukraine to simply resist.
>
> She did not fall, she did not give up, she did not retreat - she continued to fight for her future.
>
> Today, it is in Ukraine, in this very war, that the world order is being decided in the next 50 years.
>
> Glory to Ukraine!
>
> May God and the Ukrainian Armed Forces keep it!
>
> Jan Valetov
> ===

wow.