On turn 12 with the white pieces I played queen to c2, but computer analysis says it's bad and that queen to e2 is much better.
It's frustrating to me that I can't tell any real difference even though my move was almost as bad as dropping a pawn according to the computer. I don't see any immediate tactics that drop a pawn, so the difference must be positional. I don't really see a positional difference, except maybe black rook to c8 could eventually threaten my queen on c2 sooner than a black rook to e8 could threaten my queen on e2. Is that worth a whole pawn? What positional ideas should I learn or keep in mind so that I don't play these moves that are as bad as dropping a pawn immediately out of the opening?
@brochess Wow great question. I think rook c8 is a good point. Another thing: In the game black played c4 and you had to play Be2. With Qe2 you could go Bc2 and stay forever on the b1-h7 diagonal, much better bishop. But this is way above my paygrade so maybe I'm wrong
I think the main problem with Qc2 is Rc8, because black is threatening cxd4. If white does nothing about this threat then cxd4 wins the pawn because the queen is pinned so white cannot play cxd4 right back, and Nxd4 runs into e5, forking the knight and bishop.
Even if white does address this threat against d4 black can still play cxd4,which opens up the rook and creates ideas of going with moves like b4 that attack the c3 pawn which is pinned, so black gains the initiative.
On my computer, after Qc2 and Rc8 stockfish suggests Qd1, meaning that the engine believes that Qc2 is a waste of a move. But, this is probably necessary in order to avoid giving the initiative on the c file.
Hope this helps :)
Qc2 somewhat „feels“ wrong. Qe2 fits better into the thrust e4-e5 followed by Qe4, Qg4, Qh5, something like that. Qc2 seems a bit loose, not to the point.
I guess after Rc8, your queen is greatly misplaced and also you want the c2 square for the bishop.
The answers above spoke to the positional aspects; I agree and have nothing to add to that.
What I can tell you about computer chess programs in general is that the biggest factor in the evaluation function is material. So long as the line computed ends in a material plus, the computer will probably suggest that line. Any position factors, if weighed at all, are fractions of a point. So the suggestion given by the computer, in general, may leave the game in a positional loss or in a complex tactical situation that the computer has seen a way to hold, but may be difficult for people to hold.
In the game you gave, on my machine, local Stockfish in the browser, finally settled on 12.a4 Qb6 13.Qe2 c4. Really 13...c4? It just drives the Bishop where it wants to go, and Black missed the opportunity to open the c-file. Stockfish then gives, after 14.Bc2, the score as +0.6. And 12.a4? Instead, 12.Qe2 seems so much better, as was pointed out in the above posts.
Could be an instructive exercise : find Tkachiev's games as White, look for the games where he played Qc2-e2 in the early middlegame and try to figure out why (vs Solozhenkin 1999, Adams 1999, Zhang Zong 2001, Dvoirys 2003, Lobron 2003, Drasko 2007, Karpov 2008, Doettling 2009; there are a few others more obvious since there is already a rook on c8).
@Nerwal where is the best place to find those games? I've heard of something called chessbase but I don't think it's free to use. Is there a way I can find them on lichess? I know that lichess has at least some interface into a historical games database because it provides some in the opening explorer.
You can probably find them on something like
chess-db.com/public/pinfo.jsp?id=618438.
As for Lichess I can never find anything or make anything work so I don't know.
@Nerwal - can't you just put in the position on the analysis board and then open up the masters' database - I'm pretty sure it comes up with all the top games in that position.
